Thursday, March 31, 2005

Sigh. Why try?

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother trying to have a rational discussion with most liberals. They can't defend their opinions in an honest exchange of ideas, so they launch personal attacks. It goes something like this:

Me: I think parents should be able to decide how and where their children are educated. Why do you disagree?

Them: She's villifying teachers! She wants to indoctrinate all children in private religious schools!! She hates education!!! She's a shill for Wal-Mart!! Aaaiiiieeeeee!!

Me: Um, do you need me to help you find your meds?

Here's a good example on David Goldstein's "Horse's Ass" blog. (Goldstein is the one who filed an initiative to declare Tim Eyman a horse's ass. I think he's wrong on many things, but certainly intelligent and entertaining. I don't group him with the liberals above.)

13 Comments:

At 8:26 AM, Anonymous David Goldstein said...

Marsha,

Unlike some of the other blogs, I do not block or ban "trolls" of one political persuasion or the other. The upside is that we get a lively and passionate debate over on HA. The downside is that you sometimes have to wade through a lot of garbage and insults to get to the good the stuff.

So please feel free to come back and continue to argue the issue, and just ignore the people who go personal.

 
At 10:10 AM, Blogger Marsha Louise said...

Thanks, David. I will certainly do so as time allows!

 
At 10:49 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting. I don't see a single unreasonable comment from a liberal on your link. Where's the Wallmart reference? You are accused of wanting to replace tax funded education with vouchers and religious schools. That IS your position.

Don't blame it on liberals because you lack the intellectual weight to hold your own in debate.

 
At 11:52 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Musha said:
She's villifying teachers! She wants to indoctrinate all children in private religious schools!! She hates education!!! She's a shill for Wal-Mart!! Aaaiiiieeeeee!!

I say:
Yes, the liberals do get personal. I'm sorry that happens to you. It really isn't defensible.

Of course, neither are your position (or Jason's) elevating I-601 over what is much more clearly the will of the people, however well you may articulate your arguments. There's plenty to attack in the Senate budget without using I-601 as a basis. In the meantime, equating the regressive tax plan of 884 with the progressive ideas of 728 is wholly dishonest to your readers.

And you are a Christian libertarian after all. Those of us who are neither Christian nor libertarian don't want you to reach your desired political ends because you've shown us no reason to believe that there will be any room for us in your ideal state (or rather plane).

You like Wal-Mart and are indirectly paid by that company. Many others don't like Wal-Mart -- and for well-documented reasons (We're not anti-capitalism, we just prefer the way Costco does business). Thank goodness we live in a free society where we can each vote with our dollars according to our own desires.

But your push, along with the EFF, for vouchers and other depolorable policy ideas weakens public education -- the paramount duty of our state. We won't stand idly by while Miles the kitty's mommy threatens the well-being of our children. If I were a citizen of Suadi Arabia or Pakistan, I wouldn't stand by to allow taxes to support madrasas, either. Religious zealotry in virtually every form has seriously negative consequences in the societies where it breeds. (I know because teachers taught me about the Dark Ages in my public high school).

You do, in fact, villify teachers. That's not hyperbole. It's your right to do so, of course. But please don't try to tell most people that you want what they want. You do want to abridge the separation of church and state and insert your religious values into our schools. You may not hate education, but the brightest minds in Washington education seldom lend credence to your ideas -- and that's not usually borne out of political differences. It's that nationally your ideas have been proven failures. Where enacted, they have weakened the structures by which the next generation is best and most equitably educated.

When you can convince thoughtful liberals like Goldy that you have his daughter's best interests in mind, you will surely see a more constructive dialogue in the blogosphere and in the Legislature.

In the meantime, there will be on all-out, non-violent assault to keep you and your Scaife-funded agency from getting your way.

 
At 12:02 PM, Anonymous Anna D. said...

Hi Marsha - I just read through the comments on HA and your comments here and wanted to say GOOD JOB! :-)

 
At 1:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I used to go to goldstein's site. I agree he is extremely intelligent and he has an emotional way about him that ellicits responses.

I quit horsing around there when he was gloating over the possible death of Falwell. His comment was way way too sick.

 
At 11:14 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Marsha doesn't like to debate liberals because she can't construct an argument that isn't insulting. How could anyone trust someone with such poor command of basic logic to direct education policy?

Her first response to Goldy is to quote the Voter's Pamphlet, which noted that no tax increases were required to fund I-732 because we had a budget surplus at the time. Does she think anyone is so dumb as to buy this argument? Isn't there a disclaimer in the Voter's Pamphlet that notes that each measure is accompanied by the text of the proposed law, an objective statement of its effect, and then statements of advocates which are not approved or edited by the Secretary of State? Is there any voter so uniformed he or she doesn't understand the difference?

What's more, is there any hypothetical voter who, when reading that the state has a surplus and thus we can have more spending without raising taxes, understands that statement to be some sort of guarantee that the state will ALWAYS have a surplus and will NEVER have to raise taxes again to pay for existing programs or new spending? I don't think there is a single person dumb enough to take the statements that Marsha quotes in the manner in which she proposes most voters understood.

SIs Marsha herself this dumb, or does she perceive her readers to be this dumb? It must be one or the other.

 
At 8:59 PM, Blogger I am Coyote said...

Anonymous said: "How could anyone trust someone with such poor command of basic logic to direct education policy? "

How could anyone trust someone that is afraid to put their name or handle to a thought?

Mr. Anonymous, it is easy... Over $9,000 per student in the public education system... Where is it going? And just how much DOES it take to educate a child?

 
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